Rename files instead of moving them?

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FormBurden
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Joined: 15 Oct 2020, 05:19

Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by FormBurden »

I've used your software for years now, but it seems I've ran into this issue a few times, but it seemed like it sorted it's issue in the past on it's own, unlike now. But what the issue is, when renaming files and they're on a different drive, or even on a Network drive on my NAS, in the past the files would rename in a snap (no file moving). But now, and I've had this happen in the past, the files are being moved over to my "C" drive and then moved back (or however it works) in order to complete the rename. In the past, it would just rename, no moving around to complete the rename. Is there a way to get this back or something? Maybe a setting?

My entire renaming scene used to all happen on my PC, but now I download on my NAS, and all files stay on my NAS (FreeNas) so they can stream to PLEX. Anyway, just like above, when renaming, it uploads the files to my PC and then spits them back to my NAS. Anyway, to just rename instead of moving?
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rednoah
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by rednoah »

FileBot will always perform move / rename operations with one single system call. However, it's the underlying platform / file system (and not FileBot code itself) that actually performs and decides how to perform move / rename operations. If it's doing a copy+delete move then that means that the OS sees input folder / output folder as separate file systems.


:?: The input folder / output folder are not the same SMB share, right?


If you have trouble with a remote file system, then Google is your best friend. There's lots of things you can try:
  • Restart your computer
  • Restart your NAS
  • Unmap and Map your network shares again
  • Use UNC paths if mapped network shares don't work
  • Use mapped network shares if UNC paths don't work
  • Use the IP if the HOSTNAME doesn't work
  • Use the HOSTNAME if the IP doesn't work
  • Try a different share on a different NAS to see if that works
  • Try installing the latest Windows Updates


:idea: The most reliable method of working around issues with network shares is simply running FileBot on the device itself. That would have the added advantage of allowing you to create hardlinks or reflinks.



:idea: Please read How to Request Help.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
FormBurden
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Joined: 15 Oct 2020, 05:19

Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by FormBurden »

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened. Like I stated, earlier, Filebot just renamed without moving the files whatsoever. I had HUGE files of 55GBs so that would take quite some time to handle if moving to PC and back to NAS. But it did it instantly.

EDIT: Well, now idk anymore lol, I just did another rename and now it's moving them to PC to rename and move back to NAS. Not sure if from the above statement was because they were recently moved from one NAS drive to the other, and they were fresh? While the ones that did not work have been sitting on the drive for a while.
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rednoah
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by rednoah »

In theory, it's really rather simple:

:idea: If you rename / move a file on the same drive / file system, then the operation is instant. It's just a matter of changing the file system entry. The physical data on disk remains untouched. There's no need to read or write the physical data on disk since already there.

:idea: If you rename / move files from one drive to anther (e.g. move from internal drive to external drive) then the move operation necessarily requires all the data to be physically read from the source drive and physically written onto the destination drive.

:idea: If you rename / move files between different network shares, then that's the same as having 2 physically separate hard drives from the point of view of your local computer, even though it may all be on the same drive from the SMB server point of view.


TL;DR never perform rename / move perform operations across network shares / drives / partitions / filesystems / etc.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
FormBurden
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by FormBurden »

rednoah wrote: 17 Oct 2020, 16:59
TL;DR never perform rename / move perform operations across network shares / drives / partitions / filesystems / etc.
Well I get all of that that you stated, but the TL;DR I don't understand? Are you saying to not use FileBot on PC to rename files on a NAS drive? Because that's what I've been doing. And like I said, the first time today out of 3 bulk renames, the first, which was HUGE of 55GBs, renamed instantly, no moving to PC then back to NAS when you hit "rename" button. But the other 2 did do the move from NAS to PC to NAS again. That's what I don't understand. Why one rename session did the rename instantly (as if FileBot was on that drive, even tho it's not) but the other two sessions had to move the files to PC to rename and back to NAS. Uh, why does it do that?
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rednoah
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by rednoah »

TL;DR You move / rename files on the same drive. This universally applies to FileBot just as well as Windows Explorer or any other file management tool.


e.g.
1. Map your network share as Drive X:
2. Move X:/Downloads/Avatar.avi to X:/Media/Avatar (2009)/Avatar (2009).avi (source and destination is on the same drive; thus the operation will be instant)




:!: If the operation is not instant, even though it should be instant, then that'd be a Windows issue. Debugging Windows issues is not our expertise here though, but other people on other forums on the internet might have some ideas.


:!: Note that you have not yet provided system information nor screenshots nor file paths. Please read How to Request Help.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
FormBurden
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by FormBurden »

Ok here is my system info and logs: https://imgur.com/6KEiuUu and https://imgur.com/wtq5PKx

As for the logs, I'm thinking that was before I bought the software, but maybe there's more info that could be useful.

Anyway, so I did it again. I did a SSH to move some files in my NAS from drive 1 to drive 2 (copying not moving), after the copy I renamed the files to the show that it is, once again, instant. For whatever reason I did a test from drive 1 to rename, and I renamed a file and that was not instant, it was a complete move and got DL to Windows to rename the file. I had a ponder, maybe copying the file through SSH on drive 1 like I did before would do it? Nope, still the same thing: went to windows to read (downloading entire file) then rename.

I just don't understand. I did an experiment. Because from the first reply on this thread I stated I moved files (all the same title, just split up 2 sessions) from drive 1 to drive 2, renamed them to the show, and it was instant, both sessions. The other ones I did were titles that were already moved days ago, just decided to rename them now, they were not instant. Got DL'd to PC to read, then back to NAS drive. So it got me thinking, what about doing another SSH move from drive 1 to drive 2 and rename to see if that causes it to be instant. Nope, did the whole DL'd to PC to read, and back to NAS.

So from that, I also got thinking (lol I troubleshoot a lot so all these ideas come) would it have anything to do with the file formats? I mean not just the .MP4, .MKV etc., the formats inside the files. Because I know that people encode files differently, they use different audio or different video formats within the container. Or would that not matter once it is inside the container file? Not sure if that could be a thing and the SMB when renaming isn't compatible when you hit rename, so it downloads the whole thing in order to complete the rename. And that's why I was able to rename 110GBs of a show with 26 episodes instantly. And the others were like 15GB or so and they had to get downloaded onto Windows to read then get renamed.

Anyway, any ideas?
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rednoah
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Re: Rename files instead of moving them?

Post by rednoah »

What is the absolute source path / destination path of a file that didn't move instantly?
A. From the point of view of your Windows computer?
B. From the point of view of your SMB server?


:!: The log is not relevant to the move/copy+delete problem, because that decision is up to the OS and FileBot doesn't know which decision the OS has made. If the OS reports a failure, then FileBot will log an error message.


:!: The log does however show that you're using \\UNC file paths. I assume that you have switched to mapped network drives since then as suggested previously. Yes?


:!: You indicate that you have multiple shares / multiple drives. This does make user error more likely. Keep in mind that move operations are only instant if the operation does not cross filesystem boundaries so for testing I would stick to 1 share / 1 drive.


:!: If you connect to the NAS via SSH, then all file system operations are local on device. You're just sending commands. This will allow you to narrow down the issue to the SMB server.


:idea: The file content does not matter. It's just a sequence of bytes as far as the OS is concerned.


:idea: The remote server can theoretically refuse any attempted move operation on a case by case basis with an error code that then instructs the client to copy+delete itself (via the network). So if it's really not working, seemingly randomly, then there's something going on on the server-side. That something could be anything. Perhaps the filename is causing a bug on the server-side. Perhaps the client has a lock on the file, and so the server refuses the move operation because it can't currently delete the file.




EDIT: Note that I use the words move and rename interchangeably because both terms refer to the same filesystem operation.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
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