Rename Windows 10 - very slow (because Acronis True Image)

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seger85
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Rename Windows 10 - very slow (because Acronis True Image)

Post by seger85 »

Hello all,

first of all thank you for the great tool, unbelievable what it takes off my daily work.

I use the version FileBot 4.9.2 - Windows 10 Store version.

Since switching from Java to the Windows internal system UI support in the background, the rename speed has dropped enormously. The classic rename and move (in on the same system disk) takes super long.

I've been dragging from the following path for ages:

Code: Select all

Movies:   K:\Upload_Download\1 Download\
Series:    K:\Upload_Download\1 Download
Files to Filbote and then rename and move them with the following syntax:

Movies:

Code: Select all

K:\- Filme\{collection.replaceAll(/[:|]/, " - ")}\{n.replaceAll(/[:|]/, " - ")} ({y}) {[vf]}\{n.replaceAll(/[:|]/, " - ")} ({y}) {[vf]}
Series:

Code: Select all

K:\- Serien\{n} ({y})\Staffel {s}\{n} - {s00e00} - {t} {[vf]}
Am I missing something, is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks and best regards,
Seger
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:26 Since switching from Java to the Windows internal system UI support in the background, the rename speed has dropped enormously.
I don't know what this means. But if A somehow works well and B somehow doesn't, why not keep using A instead of B?

seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:26 The classic rename and move (in on the same system disk) takes super long.
As long as the file stays on the same file system, things should be instant. But if network shares are involved, then things might get finicky. It should work, but there's a myriad of possible reasons why it might not. It's ultimately up to your OS / file system driver / network share to decide how to perform a given move operation. I'd start by copying the source / destination paths into PowerShell and do Move-Item /A /B manually to see if that works.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

okay, I may not have put that cleverly, since the new version you have been using UI and windows. I thought maybe it’s because of that. I haven't changed my variant.

Yes, I move on a network drive, but it has not changed and normal copying via Explorer is also quite normal, but no longer under the new Filbote version. Do you have any more tips for me?
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

rednoah wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:43 As long as the file stays on the same file system, things should be instant.

lately that doesn't happen anymore ...
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:48 okay, I may not have put that cleverly, since the new version you have been using UI and windows.
If you're having issues with the GUI application, please share screenshots. Notably, there haven't been any recent changes in this regard, so whatever the issue may be, it's likely not related to any specific version of FileBot. Please read How to Request Help for details.

seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:48 Yes, I move on a network drive, but it has not changed and normal copying via Explorer is also quite normal, but no longer under the new Filbote version. Do you have any more tips for me?
* Try local files. See if that works.
* Try copying the source / destination path from a move operation that is slow into PowerShell and do Move-Item /A /B manually. See if that works.
* Try lots of things not narrow down exactly what works and what doesn't.



EDIT:

Any of these things might help narrow down the root cause of the issue:
rednoah wrote: 28 Mar 2017, 05:46 Have you tried this?
  • Restart your computer
  • Restart your NAS
  • Unmap and Map your network shares again
  • Use UNC paths if mapped network shares don't work
  • Use mapped network shares if UNC paths don't work
  • Use the IP if the HOSTNAME doesn't work
  • Use the HOSTNAME if the IP doesn't work
  • Try a different share on a different NAS to see if that works
  • Try installing the latest Windows Updates
  • Try uninstalling and then reinstalling FileBot from the Windows Store
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

Move-Item -Path "K:\Upload_Download\1 Download\1 Encodieren\Serien\Mac Gyver\" -Destination "K:\Upload_Download\1 Download\"

check! no problem 1 sec.
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

filebot opens the windows dialog and needs about 2 min for the same operation. the folder contains 76 mkv file (77gb)
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

Any of these things might help narrow down the root cause of the issue:
rednoah wrote: 28 Mar 2017, 05:46 Have you tried this?
  • Restart your computer
  • Restart your NAS
  • Unmap and Map your network shares again
  • Use UNC paths if mapped network shares don't work
  • Use mapped network shares if UNC paths don't work
  • Use the IP if the HOSTNAME doesn't work
  • Use the HOSTNAME if the IP doesn't work
  • Try a different share on a different NAS to see if that works
  • Try installing the latest Windows Updates
  • Try uninstalling and then reinstalling FileBot from the Windows Store
Check, no change! :-(
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

You can try to disable native integration:

Code: Select all

filebot -script fn:properties --def useNativeShell=false
That'll disable the Windows File Dialog UI. Might work better. Might not.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

I'll be happy to try, where can I set this? Or do I have to use the command line in Windows?

Or where can I find the file to set it?
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

Code: Select all

filebot -script fn:properties --def useNativeShell=false
Update user-defined System Properties
* Set useNativeShell = false
Store user-defined System Properties
* Write C:\Users\Seger\AppData\Roaming\FileBot\system.properties
#FileBot System Properties
#Tue Dec 15 15:20:56 CET 2020
useNativeShell=false
I will tested and get in touch ...
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

okay that was it :-) !!! The file is retained even after an update ...

Perhaps you can also incorporate the feedback into the store version.
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 14:39 Perhaps you can also incorporate the feedback into the store version.
Well, it works by default for most people, including all of my test cases. Might be an isolate issues rather specific to your circumstances. But it's good to know that in this case useNativeShell=false makes it work better for you. I'll keep an eye on similar reports.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
seger85
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by seger85 »

Okay, I see! My Windows version is the really latest one:

Win 10 Pro
20H2
Build: 19042.685

As I said, I have never had this behaviour before.

Thank you,
Seger
gohakn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2023, 09:25

Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

@ rednoah

I know this thread was left a long time ago, as the problem was solved but I´m facing exact the same problem like seger85 in 2020 and I followed all the possible solutions you suggested.
My Computer uses the same conditions like him and I`m through all the things you mentioned:
- disconnect & reconect Network shares, change from mapped to UNC and back, etc.
- rename on an local drive works flawlessly

But when I try to MOVE a file with the command in PowerShell ( unlike seger85) it takes very long for the file to be "moved".

Do you have any advise / hint what causes this behaviour?
rednoah wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:54
seger85 wrote: 15 Dec 2020, 11:48 Yes, I move on a network drive, but it has not changed and normal copying via Explorer is also quite normal, but no longer under the new Filbote version. Do you have any more tips for me?
* Try local files. See if that works.
* Try copying the source / destination path from a move operation that is slow into PowerShell and do Move-Item /A /B manually. See if that works.
* Try lots of things not narrow down exactly what works and what doesn't.



EDIT:

Any of these things might help narrow down the root cause of the issue:
rednoah wrote: 28 Mar 2017, 05:46 Have you tried this?
  • Restart your computer
  • Restart your NAS
  • Unmap and Map your network shares again
  • Use UNC paths if mapped network shares don't work
  • Use mapped network shares if UNC paths don't work
  • Use the IP if the HOSTNAME doesn't work
  • Use the HOSTNAME if the IP doesn't work
  • Try a different share on a different NAS to see if that works
  • Try installing the latest Windows Updates
  • Try uninstalling and then reinstalling FileBot from the Windows Store
gohakn
Posts: 10
Joined: 07 Apr 2023, 09:25

Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

Hello, anybody there ?? :roll:
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

:?: Can you include more information and clues?


:?: Screenshots, file paths, any trial & error tests you have performed to systematically check and narrow down what works and what doesn't?


:arrow: The first question you want to ask yourself would be "Should the move operation be instant or do a slow copy+delete operation?" which depends on whether source / target file path are on the same file system, or not.


:idea: Please read How to Request Help.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
gohakn
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

rednoah wrote: 30 Apr 2023, 02:12 :?: Can you include more information and clues?
:?: Screenshots, file paths, any trial & error tests you have performed to systematically check and narrow down what works and what doesn't?
:arrow: The first question you want to ask yourself would be "Should the move operation be instant or do a slow copy+delete operation?" which depends on whether source / target file path are on the same file system, or not.

:?: 1: If I know which information is helpful I would be happy to share them with you...

:?: 2: I followed your suggests about connecting as UNC / network / mapped drives and ended (as it has been before) with maped drives \\192.168.124.78\foldername
:?: different network shares on different NAS`s ( All my NAS are Synology, connected via SMB3 Protocol) are having the same problem
"RENAMING" Files which are located on a local Drive ( D:\folder...) are processed instant :roll:
Running a MOVE Operation in Powershell is also taking a long time. ( moving instead of renaming)
I was running FileBot for a while without Problems, but since a Crash in WIN10 I had to do a complete new installation ( Win10 + Programms + Java, etc.)
Maybe there is something wrong with my Version of Java I`ve installed, as I can not surely say which Version I had in use before.
Now I`ve installed Oracle`s
  • * Java 7 Update 79
    * Java 7 Update 80
    * Java 8 Update 361
    * Java SE Development Kit 7
    * Java SE Development Kit 11.0.18


:arrow: The action should be just renaming without moving files

Thank you
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

gohakn wrote: 10 May 2023, 19:56 Running a MOVE Operation in Powershell is also taking a long time. ( moving instead of renaming)
This strongly suggests that the issue is not related to FileBot, Java (NOTE: FileBot does not require Java nor uses any Java you may or may not have installed on your system), or any other client-side software, except maybe the SMB3 remote file system implementation which is Windows internals. Unfortunately, I don't know how to debug SMB issues like that. It's most likely a server-side issue.



My first question would be:

:?: If it takes longer than expected because it's doing a copy+delete operation, which side is doing the copy+delete operation? Is your Desktop downloading the file over the network, and then uploading it again over the network? If you see network activity spike, then this is the case. Or, is your Windows sending a instant-move command to the NAS, which then decides to do a copy+delete operation? If you see no network activity, but disk I/O on the NAS at maximum, then this is the case.


:arrow: Since the issue is most likely on your NAS, you may want to Google in that direction. Which NAS? Which software / file system is running on the NAS? Does it work if you create a new share with pristine permissions? Does the NAS provide debug logging for SMB operations?


:arrow: Also, please include Screenshots. We can't see what you can see. A fullscreen screenshot may sometimes provide clues that we would not think of asking and you would not think of mentioning.
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
gohakn
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

Sorry , it took me a while reading, understanding and testing the things you mentioned.
  • All the following settings are unchanged since about 2 years, and where also working before the crash of my WIN10 PC in Jan' 2023

    * 1. NAS is a Synology DS1817+
    * Filesystem is ext4
    * RAID 5 on 8 HDD`s
    * Network share is connected with "admin-User rights" via SMB1/SMB2/SMB3

    * 2. NAS is a Synology DS220+
    * Filesystem is Btrfs
    * RAID 1 on 2 HDD`s
Image
Image
Image
This ais a part of Synologys SMB Protocol
Image

The only thing I`m not sure how to check is your
Is your Desktop downloading the file over the network, and then uploading it again over the network? If you see network activity spike, then this is the case. Or, is your Windows sending a instant-move command to the NAS, which then decides to do a copy+delete operation? If you see no network activity, but disk I/O on the NAS at maximum, then this is the case.
Image
Immidiately after i start the "Rename" Process i see the network traffic is rising to 40-70 MB/s only in the upload direction...
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

1.
I will assume that you can reproduce the same behaviour on both of your NAS devices.


2.
The sysinfo and log output show no anomalies. Looks normal. The move progress dialog confirms that you are already using the useNativeShell=false option.


3.
The SMB log does confirm that the file is renamed instantly on the NAS, because it says "Umbenennen". But somehow the file is read before and after? That's very unusual. Some reads after renaming might be caused by Windows creating thumbnails. But before renaming? I have no idea why that might happen, or why it might only happen in your case. The NAS resource monitor shows only network upload and no disk I/O (this is very strange; isn't it at least reading the data it's uploading? but maybe already cached in RAM?) so this further confirms what you see in the log, even though it's most unusual.


4.
New Idea: Since a file read is causing the delay, we could try to disable file reads, just to see if that makes a difference:
viewtopic.php?t=12022

Code: Select all

filebot -script fn:properties --def net.filebot.media.parser=none

5.
Long Shot: Since you're using the MSI package, you could try an older version of FileBot for good measure. Maybe FileBot 4.9.1 since the OP indicates that the issue was introduced with 4.9.2 so worth a try just to see if it does indeed make a difference. Maybe there are some code changes that somehow indirectly cause a file read in certain rare corner cases:
https://get.filebot.net/filebot/
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
gohakn
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

Thank you for the next 5 Steps...

1. YES, Same behaviour on both NAS Devices
2. YES, the "usenativeShell..." is already added
4.I tried this, but no change in the result.

At 09:45:54 was the moment when I hit the "RENAME" Button, and at 09:46:25 the small window 1 File renamed was popping on the screen.

But this "Lesen"/reading of the file as I understand should have been disabled after your hint No. 4, true?

Image

5. Can I install both Versions parallel in different folders or do I need to uninstall the actual 5.0.2 first?

What I´ve tried right now that if a file was already renamed ( moved) I change the output name and do the whole process again with the same file, the Rename is done instantly. ( Like if the file is already known in the System/cache/??) :roll:

Another weird thing ( but I`m not sure if this started the same time like my main Problem) when I Hit the "Match" button and select The TVDB, Filebot always handles my folders name /temp2/... as a part of the Filename and I have to SKIP to make it searching for the Filename
Image
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rednoah
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by rednoah »

4.
FileBot should not read file contents if configured to not do so. The reads before the rename operation are likely - but not necessarily - FileBot. Especially if they happen after you start matching files, since that's when FileBot would read embedded metadata.

FileBot does not read file contents after files are matched though. So reads in response to clicking the Rename button would be unusual.

FileBot would use lots if caching. And wouldn't read the same file twice. The SMB logs show multiple read events, so that's unusual.

Since you can reproduce the issue with PowerShell as well. Checking SMB logs in response to a PowerShell move operation would almost be interesting. See if we get the same mysterious reads before the actually rename operation. As a second step, try the same move operation twice in a row to check if you can reproduce the same caching "works the second time around" behavior independently of FileBot.


5.
You can use the portable ZIP package to run different versions of FileBot side by side.


6.
temp2 is unrelated. It'll go away if you use a more common "temp" name, such as just "temp" or "test".
:idea: Please read the FAQ and How to Request Help.
gohakn
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

4.

Timestamp 1: ( 3 rows) was a move command inside powershell -> same result, about 24 seconds.
Timestamp 2: ( 2 rows) was instantly moving the file back to it`s origin place via Windows STRG-X -> STRG-V
Timestamp 3: ( 1 row) was a 2nd move inside powershell which is carried out in a second...
Image

5.
Different oldscool look, but the problem resists.
Image


6.
changed the folders Name from temp to rename
Image
-> no change, still moving...
Image
gohakn
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Re: [FileBot 4.9.2] Rename Windows 10 - very slow

Post by gohakn »

I made a new installation on a different WIN10 Laptop and did a rename and it works like a charme within a second...


Image
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